CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, the hosts explore the different perspectives within the Cavs’ organization regarding success in the playoffs and the importance of Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley in the upcoming matchup.
More Cavs coverage
Takeaways:
- Sam Merrill could play a big role in the series against the Orlando Magic as a shooter and create spacing on the court.
- The Cavs are still working on their lineups and rotations for the playoffs, which could impact Sam Merrill’s playing time.
- The success of the Cavs in the series against the Orlando Magic will depend on the performances of Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley.
- There are different perspectives within the organization regarding success for this season.
- The absence of Dean Wade may limit the Cavs’ ability to use the four-shooter lineup in the series against the Orlando Magic.
- The relationships between opposing players and coaches, such as Jamahl Mosley and J.B. Bickerstaff, add an interesting subplot to the playoffs.
- The Golden State Warriors may undergo significant changes in the offseason, including the potential departure of Klay Thompson.
- The Milwaukee Bucks’ playoff performance could impact the future of players like Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard.
- The playoffs are filled with intriguing storylines and matchups.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands (00:01.245)
What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of The One and Gold Talk Podcast. I’m joined by your favorite beat reporter, Chris Fidor. What up, Chris?
Chris Fedor (00:20.638)
Ethan, what’s going on man? How are you?
Ethan Sands (00:22.789)
Man, we got into some practice today. And yes, this is AI, we gonna talk about practice. So Chris, we got to have the first practice ahead of the playoffs this season. And we got to talk to some big names for the Cavs in Donovan Mitchell, Max Struce, and then also talk to the coach, the man himself, J.B. Bickerstaff. But before we got to talk to them,
As you have said on multiple occasions on this podcast and in general giving me some insight and some tutelage as I get into my first season with the Cavs, you report with your eyes. And there was somebody that was present today that hasn’t been present in the past couple of weeks and that was Sam Mero. Sam Mero we both know could play a big role in this series as a shooter. He was able to participate in practice today. And Chris
We know that this Orlando Magic team is not somebody that the J.B. Bickerstaff might want to put Sam Mero into a rotation on a regular basis, but we have both said on countless occasions that in this occasion, it could be feasible for him to try him out and see what he is able to bring as a shooter, bringing gravity, and also just adding another threat that requires eyes, especially when Donovan Mitchell is on the court.
and how they play off of each other so well. What do you think Sam Merrill will bring to this playoff series against the Orlando Magic, how difficult it could be, and how he matches up with Donovan Mitchell as a 1-2 kind of punch?
Chris Fedor (02:05.93)
I think there are a couple of things, Ethan. I think number one, Sam has had sporadic success against Orlando and that may give JB and the coaching staff a little bit more confidence to go to him. So in January, he played 31 minutes against the Magic. He scored 26 points. He erupted from three point range, made eight of those.
Now that was a game that Darius Garland was not available. Evan Mobley didn’t play either. So the rotation, there was an opportunity within the rotation for Sam to step in to some consistent minutes and he capitalized despite the fact that it was a pretty tough matchup against Orlando. And I think that provides the blueprint of how he could potentially be effective in this series. Orlando is long. They’re athletic. They’re big.
Chris Fedor (03:01.764)
Court because of how big they are it’s almost like you’re being guarded by an octopus with all of these arms just flailing and Making the court really congested well Sam is somebody who can loosen up a defense Sam is somebody who keeps a defense honest Sam is somebody who Requires whatever defender it is that’s going to be a going against him
to be very close to him. So it’s not so much about can he be effective, can he get shots off, can he make threes I think it’s can he loosen up the defense and make things easier for Jarrett Allen for Evan Mobley, for Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland and all of his other teammates. That’s one thing to note. The other thing is I’m told that
The Cavs are still working right now through their lineups, their rotations, their minute allocation. And we’ve talked about this, Ethan. We understand going into a playoff series, there is a specific plan when it comes to minutes, when it comes to rotations, how you want to attack the opponent, all of those different things. And that could change from the first quarter to the second quarter, second quarter, third quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter. That could change from game one to game two. That could then be different in game two and then game three.
going to constantly evolve.
I’m told that the Cavs are still working through the minutes, working through the rotations, and they’re mapping out what the rotation is going to be going into the series. One thing that may potentially help Sam, and I’m not saying that it’s definitely going to because he doesn’t play the same position, and because I do think it’s going to be hard for the Cavs to get away with small ball in this series against the Magic because of
Chris Fedor (04:51.344)
every single position. But Dean Wade is not going to be ready for Game 1 more than likely, and if he does return at some point in the playoffs, it’s going to be deeper into this series. Dean obviously is a power forward. Dean obviously, his minutes are going to be affected by George Niang and Evan Mobley specifically, but...
JB is going to have to find playable guys off the bench. JB is going to have to find guys that can give productive minutes off the bench, no matter what position it is. I think there’s a belief in what George Nian can bring this series. I think there’s a belief when it comes to Isaac Okoro and Karis LaVert as well. But if the Cavs want to go nine deep, I think the debate becomes, is it Sam Merrill or do we need the bigger body of Tristan Thompson against this particular Magic team?
I don’t know that is something that’s going to be consistent throughout the course of the series, whatever JB decides going into it. But I do think, I’ve talked about it before, I do think there’s a place in this series for Sam. It’s just how much do the Cavs trust it.
Ethan Sands (06:02.853)
Yeah, and Chris, as you mentioned, J. B. Bickerstaff said earlier today at practice when we talked to him that Dean Wade is potentially not going to be available in the first game of the series, and that is something that they’re still working through, but Dean Wade was not a participant in today’s practice, and that might be an indication on what’s to come for the remainder of the week. But, knowing-
Chris Fedor (06:25.862)
No, no, no. There is no might here. There is no might here. It is an indication of it. I mean, every sign is pointing to Dean Wade not being available for game one. And the Cavs haven’t ruled him out and they’re not giving a specific timeline, but every sign is pointing to him not being available, which is unfortunate for the Cavs.
But if he’s not there for the first practice of their preparation against the magic, I mean, JB Bickerstep basically said it without saying it today. They are preparing for game one as if they’re not going to have Dean Wade.
Ethan Sands (07:03.333)
And I think that just opens the door up for who else is going to be able to step up. And we all know that the team goes as Donovan Mitchell goes, and he was talking about the, again, the bare minimum of them being in this playoffs series. And if you read Chris’s feature on Donovan Mitchell, which I implore you to go read if you haven’t, that
He said that he wants to reach the conference semifinals, conference finals, and the NBA finals. Like that is his threshold for what he wants to consider success for this season for the Cavs. A lot of us, everybody else in the organization, J.B. Bickerstaff has said it on multiple occasions that the first round is what they’re focused on right now, what they wanna get past, but there is a larger goal for this team.
Chris Fedor (07:50.53)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (07:55.601)
There is a larger goal for a lot of the players on this team that think that this is the group that could push them to the next level. Obviously we know there’s a lot of players on this team that have not gotten past the first round, let alone the second round, and the difficulty of that to come in this playoff run.
First, you gotta start with Orlando, a burly defensive-minded team that is now potentially gonna start. Jonathan Isaac, who is one of the best defensive players in the NBA, and he brings size, he brings length, he can guard 1-5, and that is something that, coupled with Jalen Suggs and Paolo Mancaro and Franz Wagner, like...
Chris Fedor (08:15.767)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (08:40.625)
That is something that the Cavs have only seen, I believe, once this season, and it was different for them. And having to adjust to that is something that they have talked about adding into their game plan this season. And even Max Struz and Donovan Mitchell talked today just about the preparation going into it and trying to figure out how to get everybody on the same page and get everybody to that heightened level. Because as we’ve said on multiple occasions...
The playoffs is a different beast, it’s a different element, it’s something that is completely different from the regular season, even if they consider those games important, the heightened level of intensity and everything needs to be there. And what those two guys who have been in the playoffs, Donovan Mitchell every season in his career and Max Drews going all the way to the NBA Finals last year, you cannot, you can talk about it, but you cannot just talk about it.
Chris Fedor (09:14.348)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (09:40.025)
you have to go and experience it and do it. And that’s the biggest thing going into this series is that these guys have felt it now in the first round of last year, but they’re gonna have to replicate and improve from last year.
Chris Fedor (09:55.138)
I think you see a divide here, Ethan, when it comes to the organizational thinking within the front office and when it comes to some of the Cavs veteran players and what would be classified as success. And I’m not saying that...
It’s something that is going to disrupt their chemistry. I’m not saying that it’s something where not everybody in the organization is on the same page and that’s going to be detrimental to how far they can go in the playoffs. I just think it’s fascinating that
the guys like Donovan Mitchell, Max Truss, George Nia, and Tristan Thompson, Marcus Morris Sr. The guys that have been there and understand that you can’t take anything for granted and you can’t assume anything in the NBA, you can’t assume evolution. You can’t assume growth. You can’t assume internal development. You can’t assume that you’re going to take the next step next year just because it’s a year later and there’s a natural progression of this thing. You know what I mean?
If you ask George Niang and Max Struess and Donovan Mitchell and Tristan Thompson and Marcus Morris Sr., they’re talking bigger. They’re talking conference finals, they’re talking championship. If you talk to Darius Garland, he’s talking about advancing further than last year because he’s so young that he doesn’t know any different.
If you ask Evan Mobley, he’s probably going to say the same thing. If you ask people inside the front office on the record, off the record, they’re going to say there’s a natural progression of a team when it comes to building it organically and we just have to take it a step further than we did last year and we just have to continue to show incremental progress. And for us that’s winning a first round playoff series. And I just think it’s fascinating that Donovan is not talking like that.
Chris Fedor (11:50.164)
what he thinks about this organization and what he thinks about his teammates readiness and JB Bickerstaff’s readiness and the organization’s readiness to help him reach his ultimate goal. I think it’s really, really fascinating. And I think it’s a subplot to follow as we continue to progress throughout the playoffs, depending on how far the Cavs go in this run.
Ethan Sands (12:14.661)
Yeah, Chris, and we talk about script writers in the NBA and how people think that some things are scripted. And I think you might be behind it this year because there’s no way that the Cavs have the opportunity and the possibility of playing Orlando in the first round and now Miami in the second round. You had to have written this. You had to have.
Chris Fedor (12:41.506)
Hehehehe
Ethan Sands (12:42.926)
Two of your favorite places to travel, but that
Chris Fedor (12:45.886)
Amen. I would not hate on that. Don’t get me wrong. Ha ha.
Ethan Sands (12:51.505)
But knowing now that the 76ers took down the heat in the play-in tournament game against the, between those two guys, and now having to understanding that it’s gonna be between.
Chris Fedor (13:00.907)
Mm.
Ethan Sands (13:09.817)
Oh man, it’s gonna be between Miami, the Bulls and the Hawks, and whoever gets out of the Boston Celtics series for the first round of who the Cavs would potentially face if they get past the Orlando Magic. Because those are all potentials. We don’t know what’s gonna happen. There’s a...
Chris Fedor (13:16.095)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (13:35.709)
set that we think could happen or there’s a setup that could potentially happen, obviously knowing that Boston is the number one seed and seemingly is at a higher tier than everybody else in the Eastern Conference. But as Chris has said on multiple times throughout the year that I have begun to learn, never say never because anything can happen, especially because we know that the Boston Celtics do not have the best track record in the post season.
Chris Fedor (13:38.211)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Fedor (13:58.05)
That’s right.
Ethan Sands (14:05.317)
But Chris, I wanted to talk a little bit about just the importance of the matchups for the Cavs in this Orlando Magic series. JB Bickerstaff talked about how they have to stop the two bigs that they have in Franz Wagner and Paolo Banquero and that’s a matchup for Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley. Two guys that did not really show up in last year’s playoffs that need to step up and showcase
Chris Fedor (14:14.791)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (14:33.233)
that they are ready to be on the scene. And we can talk about all the success that Jarrett Allen had. We can talk about him being the third in franchise history in double doubles with 42 this season. That is something that you cannot snuff at. The two people above him includes LeBron James. So you know what that means to this team and this organization. And for Jarrett Allen to have that success in the regular season.
Chris Fedor (14:50.05)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (15:02.249)
I think if you were to ask anybody in the Cavs, you, Max Drew said it today, you can remember the things that happen and you have to use them for going into the playoffs, but the playoffs are an extensively different thing and you cannot rely on the success that you had in the regular season in the playoffs. It’s different. And Jarrett Allen is somebody that I think more than probably anybody on this team.
that is going to have to be the running mate with Donovan Mitchell this playoffs. That pick and roll is going to be lethal. Using him as an offensive hub is going to be extremely important. And if Jarrett Allen is able to have success, I feel like in this first round, let’s talk
Chris Fedor (15:34.943)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (15:52.749)
Key is going to be a key factor and obviously it starts for Jarrett Allen on the defensive end and leads to offense in that way.
Chris Fedor (16:01.426)
Ethan, I think this is a big Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley series. I really do.
I think the Cavs understand that they need size. I think based on some of what happened in the regular season, again, it doesn’t mean that it’s going to translate to postseason success. It’s a very different game. The level of physicality ramps up. The level of pressure goes up. Schemes change and things like that. But in the regular season, with Jarrett and Evan together against the Orlando Magic, the Cavs had an offensive rating over 130 and they had a defensive rating under 100.
because this just favors their skill set. This this kind of series fits with what they bring to the table for the Cavs. And I don’t know who’s going to get the matchup against Bankero early. It might be Mobley. It might be Jarrett Allen. But whoever has that matchup, that is really, really important. You can’t give it to Max Drews. You’re not giving it to Donovan Mitchell. So defensively, one of those two guys is going to have to take the primary assignment against Bankero.
That’s really, really important. Um, offensively...
There are probably going to be opportunities for Jarrett Allen as a playmaker and Evan Mobley as a playmaker too, because if you think back to last year’s series against New York, and this is still something that I’m sure Orlando is trying to figure out, and how much do they trust Jalen Suggs and his defensive acumen against somebody like Donovan Mitchell? Do they allow him to take that primary assignment? Do they bring help? Do they trap? Do they blitz? So...
Chris Fedor (17:37.674)
You know, New York decided to load up and try and make things as difficult on Donovan and Darius as possible. And if Orlando is going to take that same approach, if they feel comfortable taking that same approach, then the outlet is either Jarrett or Evan. It’s the screen setter. And then you’re playing four on three basketball on the offensive end of the floor.
That brings in Mobley’s passing, which has evolved greatly since last year, and Jarrett Allen in his passing, which has evolved greatly since last year. It’s going to be a test for those guys to translate what they showed in the regular season in terms of their evolution on the offensive end to postseason basketball. Because when the Knicks took the ball out of the hands of Darius and Donovan, the Cavs felt like that was going to be advantageous for them because they believed in Evan, they believed in Jarrett.
But...
Evan was, it looked like everything was moving too fast for him. His decision-making wasn’t on point. His passes were sloppy. He kind of froze when he got the basketball. It’s one of the reasons why Mitchell Robinson basically said Evan Mobley looked shook. Um, so those guys are going to be really, really important in terms of how this offense functions and especially on the defensive end of the floor with who, whoever’s going to get that assignment primarily against Bankero. And it might be.
it for a long stretch then it might be Evan for a long stretch and I think one of the benefits that the Cavs have coming into this series is that they have two elite defenders that have the size and maybe enough quickness and agility to match up with Bankero so it doesn’t have to be the same guy throughout the entire game they can give him different looks they can give him
Chris Fedor (19:30.128)
build a team around Jarrett and Evan for these kinds of series. So they need to step up and play a massive role at both ends of the floor and they have to be effective for the Cavs to win this series against Orlando.
Ethan Sands (19:44.665)
And Chris, it’s hard to say, but I think it’s true. When you think about, like you said, how this team is constructed and how much this season both of these guys have had to play without one another because of injuries, because of trying to figure out if a four shooter lineup works better, this is the series that I feel like could potentially determine how the organization looks at the duo of
Chris Fedor (19:57.927)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (20:10.897)
Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley, and if they feel like they could or might need to go in a different direction of the two big lineup. And I think that has only shown itself because of the success that the Cavs have had with the four shooter lineup against different opponents. I’m not saying it’s going to be as advantageous in this series, but I think that with Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley, this is the series that they show how good they can be together.
Chris Fedor (20:40.066)
Well here’s the thing about the 4 shooter lineup, a big piece of those successful lineups was Dean Wade. Dean Wade, Jarrett Allen together, their numbers, great. The Cavs numbers with both those guys on the floor, great.
their numbers with a five-man lineup and Dean as the four as opposed to Niang as the four or Evan as the four also great they decimated teams with Dean at the four at various points throughout the course of the season obviously not going to be ready for game one and if he comes back and he feels like he’s healthy enough to be effective
Is JB going to trust it enough to go to him? Because going from, we’re now at the month mark, right? So if he comes back, is it going to be the five week mark? Is it going to be the six week mark? And I was watching earlier tonight between Philly and Miami, and Joel Embiid was gassed. Completely gassed. He was gassed after his pregame warmup.
And as he was going, he was gassed because you’re taking a guy who hasn’t played meaningful basketball in such a long stretch of time that hasn’t gotten the conditioning that he needed, the rhythm, the reps, and you’re throwing him into a playoff environment, Ethan. That level of intensity, that level of competition after so much time off, without a ramp up?
That’s really, really difficult for a guy to go out there and be effective in that kind of environment. So even if Dean can get healthy, throwing him into the playoff meat grinder after so much time off and expecting him to be effective and expecting him to be productive and expecting him to be the guy that he was for a majority of the season for the Cavs.
Chris Fedor (22:33.374)
I don’t know that’s fair to him. I think that’s asking too much. So because Dean is not going to be there for the Cavs, and even if he is healthy enough, I don’t know how much he can provide for this team? Because of that?
Like I think the Cavs are going to be a little bit more reluctant to go to that four shooter lineup in this series against Orlando. And I think they’re going to lean heavily on the combination of Jarrett and Evan together as much as they possibly can get away with that. Because part of the reason why you love the four shooter lineup compared to last year is because of the pieces that made that all come together. Dean Wade being one, George Niang being another, and maybe Marcus Morris
some of the elements of a Dean Wade if JB feels confident enough to go to Morris. But I just think it’s harder for the Cavs to be successful with the four shooter lineup when the guy who makes that what it is primarily is the one who’s going to be missing. So it puts a lot of pressure too on George Niang.
Ethan Sands (23:42.133)
I agree. And that’s what I was saying. Like, I think this is the series that Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen show how good they can be together because they’re not going to have the opportunity as much to go to the four shooter lineup. And the Cavs don’t really want to because they know what they’re going up against and know how many minutes they’re going to need them to play. But yeah, like you said, George Niang being the four man or Marcus Morris senior being the four man, that’s going to be a big part. And like,
Chris Fedor (24:01.611)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (24:10.157)
we’re going to talk a little bit about that four shooter lineup because as we know, the Cavs went and got shooters this past off season majority reason because of how they fared in last year’s playoff series against the New York Knicks and how they were not able to keep up on an offensive firepower level with the Knicks. And I think that
Chris Fedor (24:19.037)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (24:34.961)
This is also going to be an opportunity for those guys, Max Drews, George Nyang, now Marcus Morris Sr., to show how good they are at shooting the basketball. Like Sam Merrill also being included into that if Jamie Bickerstaff goes that route, because they’re considered sharpshooters. Obviously, like we said about the regular season and being able to wash away potentially what they did then, or the success or the negativity, and now...
Max Struce did not have the season that he wanted shooting the ball. Great opportunity to change the story with a great playoff series to start. He was the one that said in today’s press conference that game one tells you everything. Game one tells you a whole bunch because it will let you, it will allow you to learn how the guys are going to guard you, what you’re capable of doing. I think it’s a big confidence game for those guys, those shooters.
Chris Fedor (25:08.647)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Fedor (25:28.755)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (25:33.465)
Max Druss, George Nyang, being able to potentially get two, three, four threes and light it up and just see a couple go in. That is a rhythm, that is a confidence thing that can carry you through the remainder of the series. And I think it’s gonna be really, really big, especially come Saturday.
Chris Fedor (25:40.515)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Fedor (25:52.426)
Yeah, in the playoffs everything is magnified, everything is scrutinized, everything is put under a microscope. The Magic aren’t stupid. They’re a smart team. They’ve got a good coaching staff. They understand the weak points of this roster.
They’re going to try and take the ball out of the hands of Darius and Donovan, and they’re going to force Isaac Kikoro to make shots and Evan Mobley to make plays and Max Struce to make shots. Look, nobody is leaving Max Struce open because he had a bad shooting percentage. He has enough of a reputation in the NBA. He takes enough volume everywhere he goes. He’s going to have multiple eyes of the defense on him because he’s that level threat, because he can get it cooking.
because he has built a reputation for being that kind of guy. The Magic aren’t coming into this series saying, oh Max Drew shot 35-36% from 3 point range during the regular season so we don’t have to worry about him as much. They’re looking at Isaac Kikoro and saying, yeah we don’t buy it. We don’t think he’s changed his reputation enough. We’ll leave him open and see if he can make those uncontested shots.
Hmm. Caris Laverte, if you’re going to beat us from three point range, no matter what you shot this past year, that’s better than allowing you to get into the paint, get to the foul line, things along those lines. Evan Mobley, you were making threes in the second half of the season when you came back from injury. Yeah. We don’t buy it. We’d rather have you out there on the perimeter taking those shots. And if you’re going to make them, you’re going to make them and we’ll tip our cap to you. That’s the strategy that they’re going to use.
Ethan Sands (27:22.399)
Mm-hmm. Ha ha.
Chris Fedor (27:35.728)
to be up to the other guys to make those shots or make the right play coming off of that. And the Cavs are going to do the same thing against the Magic guys. They have weak points on their roster too. They have guys that are non-volume shooters. They have guys that don’t shoot it at a high percentage. And the Cavs are going to test those weak points throughout the series.
Ethan Sands (27:59.153)
Yeah Chris, and I think the most interesting part of this series has nothing to do with basketball but the relationships between the players and the coaches. You mentioned it at the press conference at practice earlier today. Jamal Mosley and J.B. Biggerstaff, who families are friends and hang out together and do all of those things. And J.B. Biggerstaff said that they had a conversation saying that-
Okay, this is probably the last time we’re gonna talk for two weeks or wherever, however long this series goes and probably even after depending on who wins the who wins or loses the series because Who wants to talk about anything after that? but the other one being Donovan Mitchell and Joe Ingalls and Obviously, we know that Joe Ingalls shuts it off when it comes to friendships and relationships in the basketball world He just gets after it
Chris Fedor (28:32.54)
Yeah.
Chris Fedor (28:39.618)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (28:56.277)
And Donovan Mitchell was a little bit optimistic that Joe Ingalls could potentially allow him to get another FaceTime call in before Saturday’s matchup. But I’m not too sure knowing what I know about Joe Ingalls. Chris, what do you feel about these matchups and these relationships? And just, I think what’s really interesting is the coaching matchup between Jamal Mosley and JB Bickerstaff as well.
Chris Fedor (29:05.518)
I’m going to go to bed.
Chris Fedor (29:25.714)
It’s not only that, Ethan. Jamal Mosley told me earlier this year when I asked him. They have been trying to build a team similar to the Cavs. They looked at some of the things that the Cavs did. And look, what you do offensively in terms of your system and what you do defensively in terms of your system, that’s largely predicated on the personnel that you have. So when you’re the Magic and you have Ben Caro and Wendell Carter Jr. and Franz Wagner and Moe Wagner and Jonathan Isaac.
athletic dudes, you’re going to try and build it on the defensive end of the floor. You’re going to try and play to the strengths of your own roster. But Jamal Mosley said a couple years ago he saw the Cavs use the three big lineup with Lowry Markkinen at the three, surrounded by Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen, and it kind of gave the Magic more of a green light to be willing to try that. And it kind of gave the Magic a pathway to thinking that it could be successful.
in today’s NBA. So there are things that the Cavs have done from an organizational standpoint. There are things that JB has done from a schematic standpoint that the Magic have been trying to replicate. So
these two coaches know each other really well these two organizations know each other really well i mean the relationship between JB and Jamal Mosley is so strong that JB’s kids I’m told call Jamal Mosley Uncle Jamal and Jamal Mosley’s kids call JB Bickerstaff Uncle JB and they vacationed together during the All-Star break at Turks and Caicos Luke Walton his family was there
assistant coaching staff was there as well. So it is going to be a situation, like every year you go into the playoffs and you say, the team that we’re playing against has us scouted so well, they know our play calls, they know our Xs and Os, they know everything about us, it comes down to execution and do you just have dudes that can go out and make plays, right? It’s not about the Xs and the Os, it’s about the Jimmy’s and the Joe’s. It’s not about the play calls, right?
Ethan Sands (31:38.405)
Ah! I don’t know if I’ve heard that before, but that’s good. That’s good. I don’t think I’ve heard that before. That’s good. I don’t think I’ve heard that before.
Chris Fedor (31:40.312)
Right. You haven’t heard that one before?
Chris Fedor (31:47.774)
Yeah, so like it comes down to so many other things, especially when you get into a seven game series. But the fact that these coaches know each other so well, and they’ve taken things from each other and implemented that into their player development, into their system, into their schemes, into their team building aspects. That to me makes it a fascinating subplot.
Ethan Sands (32:14.809)
Yeah, and Chris, I wanna just do a full look at the NBA Playoffs series right now and what kind of storylines we have because this is how we’re gonna end the podcast because this is insane. Obviously we have JB Biggestaff versus Jamal Mosley, basically like brothers. That is a great like just subplot. And then you look at the Lakers taking on the Denver Nuggets.
Chris Fedor (32:28.896)
Okay.
Chris Fedor (32:34.251)
Yep.
Ethan Sands (32:43.893)
in the first round, the same team that they had to lose to in the Western Conference Finals last year against the team that went on to win the NBA Finals. And the Lakers were a playing team last year and had to work their way all the way to the Eastern Conference Finals. And that was something that I took note of. And then again, we talked about this earlier today, Chris.
Chris Fedor (33:06.658)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (33:10.669)
Zion Williamson being injured and not being able to go for the New Orleans Pelicans in their final game and how much that is going to impact the New Orleans Pelicans in their game against the Sacramento Kings. And just knowing all of the different storylines and knowing how people have been impacted and the injuries that have impacted players and what players are going through it just this late in the season. And Chris, the last one that I want to talk about because
Chris Fedor (33:21.264)
Mmm.
Ethan Sands (33:40.689)
They’re already out of the playoffs and this is a team that the Cavs have played against on multiple occasions but it could be the end of an era in Golden State with Klay Thompson ending his career potentially with the Warriors with a big fat zero in the column of the stats. And I think it was interesting how that game played out. I think it was interesting how-
Chris Fedor (33:42.987)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (34:09.361)
the teams are just potentially going to change a whole bunch this off season, depending on what happens in the playoffs. What is your take on just everything going on around the league and the playoffs setups that we have going on?
Chris Fedor (34:23.794)
Old and slow is a tough way to go in today’s era, even in playoff basketball, even when there aren’t as many possessions, even when it’s more of a half court game, even when there’s not as much freedom of movement. But the Warriors looked old and slow against the Sacramento Kings, who just looked like they had more spunk, they had more energy, they had more athleticism across their roster.
Chris Fedor (34:53.77)
Um, so I do think it’s going to be a fascinating off season for a team like the warriors. Um, I do think it opens up the opportunity for clay Thompson to explore the free agency market and see what his value is. I do think there could emphasis on could.
be an opportunity for the Warriors to think about what a future would be like without Stephen Curry and whether it would make sense to trade him off that roster eventually at some point. And I just don’t look at them as moving forward a legitimate threat in the Western Conference that a team like
The Denver Nuggets, the Minnesota Timberwolves, even the Oklahoma City Thunder really have to worry about that much into the future. There’s one thing to say about experience, right? You need that in the postseason and it’s very, very beneficial.
but the guys that have that experience, they have to play well and they have to be capable enough from a talent perspective to match up against some of these other younger teams. Young Hungry is pretty dangerous too in a playoff environment. Not knowing any better in a playoff environment, especially in a one-and-done environment like a play-in tournament, can be dangerous as well. And we saw what Keegan Murray was able to do against the Warriors and we saw what Keon Ellis was able to do against the Warriors and the speed and the athleticism
or in Fox and you know New Orleans was having some of that same success against the Warriors or against the Lakers.
Chris Fedor (36:29.662)
in the second half, especially with Zion going for a 40 burger, but once he was lost, it kind of changed the status quo there as well. So I do think it’s a fascinating situation that Golden State is going into. I think other teams around the NBA are going to be paying very close attention to the next moves that the Warriors make. Is Andrew Wiggins going to be available? Is Jonathan Kaminga going to be available? What are they going to do with Stephen Clay?
a lot of teams around the NBA are going to be circling them. Just trying to see if there’s a pathway to it. What happens in Milwaukee if Milwaukee doesn’t go on a deep playoff run? That is a high salary team with a lot of prideful dudes that doesn’t have a whole lot of salary cap flexibility that doesn’t have a whole bunch of assets because of what they gave up for Dame. Does Giannis look for an exit strategy?
Ethan Sands (37:11.259)
Yeah.
Chris Fedor (37:28.418)
Did the Milwaukee Bucks try and turn around and trade Damian Lillard because it doesn’t work out? Did they make another coaching change? When you’re in a high pressure situation as an organization with a bloated salary cap and huge expectations.
And that’s when ownership starts to get a little bit antsy, and they start to make some drastic moves. Maybe even what you would classify as panicky moves. So I do think it’s going to be fascinating to see how all of this plays out. And Golden State to me, Ethan, is just the potential first domino to fall.
Ethan Sands (38:09.389)
Yeah Chris, and looking at all of the matchups, there are more storylines that I could touch down and I’m going to do them very quickly because we’re going to wrap up shortly. But Milwaukee and the Pacers, just looking at Damian Lillard vs Tyrese Halliburton, the new vs the vet, basically, new star coming onto the scene in the vet. And I think somebody said it on ESPN recently about how Damian Lillard’s not happy and the potential if they don’t.
Chris Fedor (38:37.207)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (38:38.789)
have success that he could just want out and request a trade is potentially possible. And then you look at New York and Philly, I mean, two of the most meanest, most meanest cities in the world. And you like, who’s going to be the big bad dog to walk away from the fight. And then you look at the Western Conference and you got the timber walls and the suns and timber walls are like, we got the two.
Chris Fedor (38:52.492)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (39:07.677)
trees and then y’all got the three guards. What’s it gonna look like? Which era of the NBA is going to prevail? And then you have Dallas and Los Angeles Clippers, and they have seen each other so many times. It’s getting ridiculous. So just knowing who is going to come out of that series, obviously, different pieces and players are involved this year and just knowing what they’re going to have to do.
to be successful in that series on both ends. Kyrie and Luca Donches versus the three headed monster as Paul George, James Harden, Kawhi Leonard, and whoever else you want to name on that team. But Chris, it just looks like this is going to be a fun playoffs on both sides of conferences. And I don’t know, I still think we could point to.
Chris Fedor (39:50.797)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (40:03.941)
who we think is gonna make it to the end, but I think we’ve said that enough. Has your point changed?
Chris Fedor (40:11.114)
No, it’s still Denver to me. And then in the Eastern Conference, I think the two most formidable teams.
are Boston and New York, but New York has a matchup against Philly, and Philly at one point was the second best and second most complete team in the Eastern Conference. Can they get back to that level? Because getting to that level required Joel Embiid to be MVP Joel Embiid, one of the most dominant forces in the NBA. He certainly didn’t look like that against Miami tonight in the play-in tournament. Maybe more time to recover from this thing. Maybe more time since the injury.
the playoffs progress, he’s going to get more confident, more of a rhythm, healthier. But that’s the way that I view it. And I’ve said from the very beginning, do not sleep on Dallas. We all know Luca, right? We also all know Kai. In a playoff environment, Kyrie takes it up multiple notches. He understands how to do that.
because he’s done it before, because he’s been in playoff battles. He’s the kind of guy who defensive schemes do not matter, right? Level of defender going up against you does not matter. Um, there is something.
real about playoff Kyrie. And I loved Luca’s response when he was asked about previous matchups against the Clippers and why this one is going to be different or why this one can be different. And he said we’ve got Ky.
Ethan Sands (41:42.737)
Yeah, and Cleveland, Cleveland knows playoff Kai better than anybody, better than anybody.
Chris Fedor (41:44.554)
I mean.
Chris Fedor (41:48.818)
Yeah, and having two dynamic ball handlers and creators on the same team sharing the floor at the same time. What that does to a defense? Think about all of the attention that is required to try and slow down Kyrie. And then think about all of the attention that is required to slow down Luka Doncic. You can’t commit that level of attention to two guys.
It’s not possible. You kind of have to like pick your poison. And if you’re going to throw a second guy at Luka, okay, good luck because you want to use that strategy against Kyrie. And if you want to use your best defender against Kyrie, then your best defender is not going up against Luka. So I think it’s going to be fascinating to see how the Clippers try and navigate that duo together. And we have seen.
dynamic initiators, dynamic creators, dynamic scores, just break down opposing defenses and make schemes meaningless in a playoff environment. And Luca and Kyrie together, when they’re playing 40 plus minutes, when timeouts are longer, when they don’t sit on the bench for long stretches.
man, Dallas is gonna be tough. Especially because they’ve got some others around those guys that can heat up from three point range or that can provide a little bit of toughness or rebounding or shot blocking. So that is one of the series that I have circled that I’m most excited to see because I think the winner of that series could probably test Denver in quite possibly the biggest way.
Ethan Sands (43:36.477)
Also, Tai Lu versus Kyrie Irving.
Chris Fedor (43:40.314)
Oh yeah. I mean, Ty Lue, we talk about playoff performers in terms of players. There are also playoff coaches, right? And Ty is a playoff coach, just like Spoh is a playoff coach, just like I think, to me anyway, Tom Thibodeau is a playoff-like coach.
So Ty knows how to crank it up a notch when it comes to playoffs. And him as a chess master going up against Luca and Kyrie. Yeah. Get your popcorn ready.
Ethan Sands (44:13.549)
It’s gonna be fun, but until next time, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris and me by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14-day free trial or.
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